Talk:Gator Chomp

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2 May 2011. The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for deletion on 26 February 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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Image

This page could use an image to display some fans doing the chomp. Certainly someone can get a shot of this by the first home game! --Travis 05:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Found a suitable image on Flickr, hopefully I can get tickets to a game this year, and I'll try and get some pictures. -FrYGuY 02:43, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge?

Any particular reason this article should not be merged into Florida Gators? Viriditas (talk) 22:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I don't think it's very notable. The article notes that it is a "gesture recognized throughout the United States of America," but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who recognizes it in most parts of the country. It may be recognized to young college sports fans in the Southeastern United States, but I don't think it has the wider notoriety the article claims, and thus, doesn't need it's own page. 69.134.241.0 (talk) 18:13, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the Gator Chomp started in the late 1960's. Originally, instead of a clap at the end of the chomp, the fingers of each hand were spread and intertwined with the other hand when they came together to resemble gator "teeth." Other times, (less often) we clapped at the end. I was a UF cheerleader and we often did the "chomp" but it wasn't called the "chomp" (it didn't have a name then but "chomp" is perfect). Also, FYI, the 1969 UF cheerleaders started the fad of wearing garters. We bought them at the bookstore and started wearing them to every game. We gave them away to the football players after the game if they won. We had a very winning season that year! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.155.111 (talk) 12:58, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Curse"

Among friends, I've joked for years about the "Curse of the Unauthorized Gator Chomp" because it's funny and it often seemed to be true. However, it doesn't belong in this article, imo, and it's unsourced and silly wp:pov. It'd be fine if it had been given regular mention in neutral media. But it's just an inside joke among Gator fans, which makes it inappropriate for anything other than a fan site or a Gator-wiki, etc. Just me 2 cents... Zeng8r (talk) 00:41, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The fans take it pretty seriously and its part of the fun of supporting the Gators. The opposition is always aware of it. The entire stadium reacts when the opposition mocks the chomp. Mention of the Gator chomp curse should stay (superstition is still worthy of mention since it explains the reaction of the crowd when the curse is challenged by the opposition). Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 06:19, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The legend of a "curse" is a lot less well known than you think. All of the citations in that section are fan sites/blogs, which are not at all reliable sources of info, so I really should insert a bunch of ^{[citation needed]} tags all over the place. Like I said, it's fun to talk about, but not appropriate here. Zeng8r (talk) 11:43, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your opinion was that the "Gator Chomp" was not worthy of its own article. That opinion was rejected at AfD. Now your opinion is that the curse is not worthy of mention in the "Gator Chomp" article. I disagree. The curse is known about by all Gator fans and certainly by all sports fans at the University of Florida. It is also known about by opponents of the UF sports teams. Your "not appropriate" opinion is just an poorly-informed opinion. It is a superstition but it is a well known superstition. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 12:00, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have just added a reference from BleacherReport.com. That's not a Gator fan site. Does that satisfy you? Do you need more? However, if I locate two more mentions like the one at BleacherReport.com I may initiate a separate article for the Gator Chomp curse. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 12:16, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And another independent reference Bambino, goats and the curse of the Gator AccessNorthGa.com, 29 October 2003. I feel the need for a Curse article independent from the Chomp article! Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 12:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Bleacher Report" is not a reliable source. It contains only user-generated content with no editorial oversight.[1] And there's no need for a separate article on the "Gator Chomp curse".--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:40, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Zeng8r appears to be correct; most of these sources are blogs and are not usable here, unfortunately. This article needs a lot of trimming down.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:45, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nipsonanomhmata, you're taking this discussion personally when it's really just wiki-business. Yes, I opined that this article should be merged with Florida Gators in an Afd discussion started by somebody else. Since the result was "no consensus", I thought I'd try to make this article better. Unfortunately, there's not much material to work with, especially discounting the "curse" section.

The sources you added today don't help. As Cuchullain mentioned, Bleacher Report is another blog/fan site. The citations from actual news sources don't talk about any "curse" at all. They talk about game results, which the article then tries to connect to instances of unauthorized chomping. This violates both WP:SYNTH and WP:NPOV and, besides that, is just plain silly. It's simply fan-site fun not appropriate for wikipedia. Zeng8r (talk) 20:03, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Now you are accusing me of WP:SYNTH and WP:NPOV when I didn't even write the text in the article. All I have done is add references to back up text in the article. Moreover, Bleacher Report is not a Gator-specific fan site. All this from somebody who does not consider the Gator Chomp to be significant enough for its own article. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 20:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, look again. I said that "the article" violates those guidelines; I have no idea who wrote it originally. As I also said, though, the sources you added are either not wp:reliable sources or do not support the text as written. And yes, this article needs a lot of work if it's to be saved. With the paucity of sources so far, it might not be possible.

And all this coming from a lifelong Gator fan and UF alumnus who was at the game where The Pride of the Sunshine first played "Jaws"... Zeng8r (talk) 20:23, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of complaining like an old woman. How about actually contributing to this article? There isn't a paucity of sources. I've added references from two books too. I don't even support the Gators. But I do find it offensive that anybody who has ever attended a college football game does not recognise the significance of the Gator Chomp which is arguably the most easy to identify college football gesture. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 20:56, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the sources are quite problematic. Most of the sources are blogs or other self-published sites, and should not be used. Others merely mention the "Gator Chomp" in passing, sometimes just to say that someone or other performed it. This is hardly significant coverage. Some don't even mention the gesture itself at all. At this stage cleaning it up is going to mean removing a lot of the material that's here.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:30, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Restart

An anonymous user (rightly) cut out some inapplicable info today. Besides that, there haven't been any attempts at improving this article since March 9, and all the problems mentioned above still remain. It's time to merge and delete, imo. Other opinions? Zeng8r (talk) 23:07, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We've already had that discussion. The Gator Chomp is notable enough on its own. Allow the article to stand independently. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 23:55, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we did have that discussion, and you were the only user who expressed the opinion that it should remain as-is. Clearly, it cannot. I'm going to officially nominate it for deletion to get more input. Zeng8r (talk) 00:55, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see you're trying, but as stated previously, "Bleacher Report" is NOT a reliable source. Also, the use of the word "chomp" in a game summary headline isn't pertinent, either. Zeng8r (talk) 19:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My vote has always been to merge to the Florida Gators. There are a grand total of six sentences cited to reliable sources and about two more with no or insufficient sources; there are exactly zero sources that constitute significant coverage. Zen, I'd hold off on renominating for deletion a while longer to let some more time pass, though.Cúchullain ^t/c 21:00, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Improving the Article

A picture of the Gator Chomp might help to improve the article. Jccort (talk) 20:30, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

I removed the material that had been unsourced or insufficiently sourced for the last several months. Perhaps it is time for a new discussion on what to do with the article.Cúchullain ^t/c 22:36, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

I propose that Gator Chomp be merged into Florida Gators. There is little hope of expanding this article because the subject matter is a simple gesture. See Talk:Florida Gators#Merger proposal. DOSGuy (talk) 21:19, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Once we removed the unsourced and inadequately sourced material, there was barely anything left. If we removed the sourced material that's totally irrelevant (such as the mention of Michelle Obama doing the gesture) there would be even less. Merging is the appropriate solution, and Florida Gators is the best option.--Cúchullain ^t/c 23:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]